237. Aspects of MOIETY: 🧡 Advanced Natal Astrology

In astrology, MOIETY ASPECTS refine planetary relationships by considering each planet's individual orb. Discover how one planet may influence another, even when the aspect is not fully mutual.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Star Zology Astrology Podcast. I'm your host, Alison Price, and I'm here with my good friend and co-host, Arwen O'Neill.

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Hello, Alison. It's great to be here.

SPEAKER_00 0:09

So nice to have you once more. So in this episode, we're going to be talking about the aspects of moiety.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

Moiety.

SPEAKER_00 0:17

Now, that is a French word, and I do apologize ahead of time if I'm not pronouncing it correctly, because it it may be moiety or something like that, but I've always called it moiety, and I'm there we go. That's what we're going to say. That's what we're going to call it then. So let's just go back to the beginning. So aspects in general, aspects of longitude are um the actual angular distances between two planets. So if they're together, then you've got a conjunction, you've got the opposition, squares, trines, and those are general aspects that we use. Yeah. And we have standard orbs that we use or that one would use.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

And the orb is how many degrees off of exact angle is. So if it's a conjunction, that means that they're occupying the same point in the sky, but we allow about like an eight-point orb, which means if it's eight degrees away from each other, then we still consider it conjunct.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Correct. So each aspect has its own orb. Yeah. Right? Right. And my orbs, the starzology orbs are standard. Um, well, for us, we do eight degrees on the main things and four degrees on the sextile. Um, but as astrologers, some of people will do a seven, some will do a ten, some will it's a wide, some will say it's a short. And once you once you start doing your own astrology practice, you're gonna do the orbs you want to do. Well, we we have our set of standard orbs, which are slightly, maybe mine is slightly different to yours as well. But anyway, those orbs pertain to the aspect itself, yeah. Whereas aspects of moiety are different because they pertain to the planet.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Yes. So this is what we're going to be um talking about a little bit now. So just moiety in general is a French word, apparently it means medium. Okay, from the Latin meditas, meaning medium measure, mean value, or half. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 2:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

So in traditional astrology, moiety diff um defines the half measures of a planet's orb.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

All right. And the dimension of the orb, uh, as I say, pertains to the planet, not the aspect. So this is slightly different. And the moiety itself is if say you say you've got the sun at 10 degrees cancer, and we would have an eight degree orb normally. So anything between two degrees cancer and eighteen degrees cancer would be a conjunction to the sun.

SPEAKER_02 2:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

So the eight degrees goes on either side of the sun's position.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

So it's not exactly in the middle. So, and technically that's the middle, even though that's the orb. And so with moiety, what they do is they say that, well, depending on how big the planet is, it actually has its full orb, and then we take the half measure, which is technically the radius of that, which is similar to the eight-degree orb. So stick with me. Okay, when you say how big, do you mean how big or how big, how massive? Like size, size does matter.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Okay. Yes, cool. Yes. I like that. Okay. So is it this is new to you? This is super new to me. And this is funny that we actually discussed this for a second right before the podcast, because uh, you know, sometimes you'll spring a topic on me and and I'll be like, I don't know what that is, but that's okay. I'll post up anyway and I'll learn something. And uh, and I feel like I feel like in that sense, I'm kind of the audience proxy, unless we're dealing with obviously like the very advanced astrologers who will be like, oh moiti, you know, yawn, yeah, didn't do that for years. Most I would think of our audience is like, what is that? And so I feel like I'm standing in for the audience going, fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

You're you're we don't want to say you're gonna take it all to you, but if you I am a new lab.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

Um and and and funnily enough, I actually did the only thing I did in preparation for this episode, to be totally honest, is I looked up the word moiety. Right. And there are a few different um legal chemistry and anthropological meanings of it, and they all have to do with being a half of a component, uh half or a share of a component or um of a whole. So in law, it's used to describe a partial interest in a property or an estate or a piece of land or whatever, where where the tenants, um, whether it's you know exactly half, because there's two of them, or or where you know it's more than two people and they all have an equal share. So that would be like a moiety. Um in chemistry, there's uh there's something to do with molecules, and and active moiety is like a medicinal thing that has to do with the uh the portion of a drug or a molecule that actually delivers the physiological or therapeutic effect. So this is a word that exists in a bunch of different jobs.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

The half-life of uranium as well. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:54

So yeah, yeah, super interesting. I know. So I'd got a I've got a few more just clarities, and I'm on and there's more information if you click through to the blog post about what we're talking today. And I've got here a little chunk which I've titled More Clarity for the Virgos. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:09

Let's do it.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

So yeah, so there are many words that are very similar and are used interchangeably with um Moiety. So average or the mean, that is actually uses all the values that it's all added together and divided by the number. So that is an average or a mean.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Now a median is actually the middle position. Yeah. So if you've got three points, the middle position, regardless of what it is, will be the median. Right. And then the midpoint is actually the middle position between a calculated point. Yeah. And then moiety is different because it actually belongs to the planet. So it's not a measurement between two points, it's a measurement of one point's size against another point's size.

SPEAKER_02 5:52

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

So even though we say, oh, the average, the mean, because we this is how we speak, um, that there are I have got some definitions there because there is a subtle difference. And if you're a mathematician, which we're not, then you would probably know that already. But anyway, so the idea is that um the moiety is the half measure of the planets by its size. So the sun being the biggest, we'll just talk about that first. So the sun's um uh has a traditional orb of 30 degrees, and that's its influence, you see, and then so it's moiety is 15 degrees. Okay, so that's way wider than the eight-degree orb that we were talking about a moment ago. And that is because as the sun comes by, it influences to that position. Yeah, it doesn't just influence in this in the my in the small place it's in. Yeah, and in a way, it's like somebody's aura. Yeah. So if you've got an aura, and in general, an aura is four inches round your body or ten centimeters sticking out.

SPEAKER_02 6:49

That's fascinating.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

But if you stand too close to people like if you're in an elevator and you've got to stand, and you just it's so difficult because you're standing in that aura.

SPEAKER_02 6:57

Totally.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

And they're just strangers, and uh and um so the idea is that the larger the planet, it's like having a larger aura, and some people do have large auras than others.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

And some people have I mean, I'm thinking of of certain famous people where where when they're walking to they have a presence. And of course, I mean, you're probably more prone to wanting to be famous if you have a large aura. I'm thinking of unless you kind of are born into a famous family and you're like a child star or whatever. But if you're the person who's like the class clown or the most popular kid in school and you're you're you're just you want to perform, you want to always be like the one who's noticed and stuff like that. And then those are the people who generally will go and become actors or musicians and and they want to be on stage, they want to be seen. And I I would think that that is like a person with a larger aura. This is it, or a CEO, even. Yeah. I mean, they're the they're the politicians of uh a company.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

Yeah, and when you get ill, your aura diminishes because it's protecting you back down. Yeah. And of course, then the uh the other theory is that if you are pregnant, your aura doubles in size because you've now got two presents there.

SPEAKER_03 8:04

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

So a million years ago, when I when we lived in Cape Town, there was that woman who um was a psychic and she was an aura reader, and I would go and see her every six months and so. And I remember the one day um she she said to me, she said, your aura's dragging behind you. Um that's not what you want to hear. That's not what you want to hear, exactly. And she what she said to me was go home and bath in salt and frish it off. Um and I said, you know, I'm this is why I'm here.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

I'm just so depressed and dragged down and the world is So when she said that you were like, Yes, it that makes sense. You that was not a surprise to you. You weren't like, What?

SPEAKER_00 8:38

Why? I know, but I didn't I but she that's what she said to me. She said you're always dragging behind you. So and it was not a case of just some nice delicate bath salts, it was regular table salt, a cup in the bath, scrub that and just let it go down the drain. Let it be slowed off, is it, or sloughed, sloughed off, sloughed off and go down the drain. And um I did that for quite a while, and it actually did feel better. I don't see auras myself, but um we know that some cameras can pick them up. Is it Kylie and photography can pick it up as well?

SPEAKER_01 9:08

I remember that back in the 80s. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:10

Yes, you take a leaf and you cut half a leaf off, the aura remains because the presence is still there.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

It's like a phantom limb. Yes, yes, and that is an absolutely real uh phenomenon. Yeah, like Yes Ramachandran has talked about how the brain is actually your brain maps out, and that's why people when they get into car accidents or when they're skiers and they they they they become one with the the the the extension of their body. Right. Whatever that is, if it's a vehicle or if it's a the road rate. Yeah, exactly. Because you feel like someone's actually touched you, you you know it's stuck. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

So that this is um similar to what we're talking about here, that the actual presence that the planet takes up due to its size and um in importance, which it is, less the sun is the most important. So at 15 degrees, this is its moiety orb.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

Love that. That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

Yeah. So I've come across, we've got these four four measurements of the middle bit, let's face it. So I've just got a thought here that the average per the average um calculation asks, what's the combined value? They're added together. The median asks, what is the middle value in a group? Uh, midpoint asks, what's the halfway point between points? But Moiety asks, how far does this planet's influence extend?

SPEAKER_01 10:30

Yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 10:31

So this is it. So when the sun rises in the morning, before it's breached the horizon, not the ascendant, we we see the sun beams. There's no ex the no one's saying, Oh, the sun's not going to rise, and then there it is. Yeah. Whereas other planets, not so much. Yeah. And that's the point. Yeah. Yeah. So there is a I do have a table for the planetary moiety degrees, and um I wrote it out as well, so you can follow along if you like. And so the let's just get to it. So the moiety radius for the sun before and after is 15 degrees. For the moon, it's 12 degrees, because the moon is the second biggest thing in the sky, as far as we're concerned.

SPEAKER_02 11:10

From Earth, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:11

Yeah. Um, then we have Saturn and Jupiter both at 9 degrees because they're the big hefty ones. Okay. Um, Mars is then at 8 degrees, Venus at 7, and Mercury at 7 as well, because they're pretty small. Now, normally the outers are not necessarily used for moiety. They're just so far away. You exactly, they're not visible. Yeah. So what I'm saying here is that size does matter. The bigger the planet, the larger its actual moiety, and um the smaller the planet, the smaller the moiety. So you can see that each of the planets has a different moiety value.

SPEAKER_02 11:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

And if we look at it too, we just said that in a in general a conjunction is eight degrees, but if Venus and Mercury's moiety is seven, then not all conjunctions count. You see.

SPEAKER_01 11:55

So do we consider moiety when we're only talking about conjunctions, or is it with every aspect?

SPEAKER_00 12:00

Yes, it's just easier to talk about it when it's conjunctions to get your head, get your head around these things, right? Yeah. So I've got this handy-dandy diagram um on the blog post, and I'm taking the two planets. I've got the sun with it with an orb of 15 degrees, and I have Mercury with it with its moiety orb of seven degrees. And this diagram, sorry, I know it's a podcast, but you do need to click through to look at the image. And the idea is that um Mercury with its orb of seven, in it in this position, the sun sees Mercury, but Mercury does not see the sun. So this makes them one-sided aspects, and this is the point that the larger planets with bigger moiety, such as the sun, is in conjunction with Mercury, but in this case, Mercury is not in a conjunction with the sun. Okay. Are we getting our head around that one?

SPEAKER_01 12:55

Maybe. I'm just gonna cling to my little bit of understanding and write it out until I hear an example that makes it click.

SPEAKER_00 13:03

Yes. So the idea being that if basically, if Mercury is um, say 10 degrees away from the sun, it's not in orb. Mercury's not in orb with the sun, but the sun is in orb. So so it's a one-sided aspect. So the energy is going from the sun to Mercury, from the sun from the larger planet always to the smaller planet.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Okay. Oh, okay, got it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

Now, had Mercury been within two degrees, it would see if we move this green circle over, it would then see it.

SPEAKER_01 13:30

Oh, yeah, that's a conjunction, no matter what. I mean, any any system. Although some people consider that combust, don't they? Something is within two degrees of the sun.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Well, comb uh there's a there is a technicality there. Yeah, it's got to be under it's 17 minutes to be. Oh wow. Okay. But the point being that um this is this is your your broadest example, because the sun's got the biggest moy tea at 15, and Mercury and Venus have got the smallest moy tea at seven. So you do get this with the inferior planets that were Mercury and Venus. And I was looking at your chart, Arwen, before we even started. And um, if we just consider your chart, um, we're looking at the, I mean, I haven't only had time to look at a couple of things. If we look at the sun-moon position in your chart, you've got the sun at five degrees, Virgo. Moon is at 14, and technically they're not in a conjunction because they're too wide for an eight-degree. However, they're nine degrees apart. So, therefore, through moiety, because the sun is at 15 and and the moon is at 12, they actually have this moiety conjunction.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

So, my chart's actually just low-key, like the perfect example of how this can be used. Yes.

unknown 14:41

Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

It's amazing.

unknown 14:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

And in this case, the sun sees the moon and the moon sees the sun because it's close enough. Yeah. Because it's under the nine and the moon's moiety is 12. Had it been 14 degrees away, yeah, only the sun would be conjoined the moon.

SPEAKER_03 14:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

And the moon wouldn't. So the energy would be going that way within that conjunction.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

That's hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 15:02

So, what this really means, you really see it between the sun and Mercury and Venus, but you can check all the other planets if you have time. And when I was a student, we did all of this.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

And the idea is that you are looking for planets that are not in conjunction by standard longitudinal aspect, but that are in conjunctions through moiety. And this is one example in your chart. I mean, sometimes I've heard you say, Well, I've got a wide conjunction with the sun and the moon. And I say, Well, define wide.

unknown 15:30

Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

You know, because yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

Well, actually, um, and I know I've talked about this this uh application. I used to use uh Janus, and I I used it when it was Janus 3.0. And this is before I was a Mac user, and it's only available for uh Windows, and it's a wonderful application if you are using Windows. I highly recommend. I think they're up to like either four or five, you know, whatever. I use Janus.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

So it's Janus, J-A-N-U-S?

SPEAKER_01 15:54

Correct, like the god, like the two-faced god. And uh it is it is wonderful because I I think you could probably do this with a lot of different astrology programs, but my favorite thing about it was that every little aspect between every little planet, you could you could go in and tinker with the notes, you can actually tinker with the um the the words that would come back, the the the descriptions, the you know interpretations. You can you know write your own if you wanted to, but you know, you could edit all that stuff. And you could also tinker with the orbs between every single planet and every single aspect per type of chart. So if you thought, well, you know, for some reason I think the bicointile is super important in a progressed comparison chart, you could you could tinker with that. Uh and I actually got like super, you know, anal about like some references. Yeah. But uh most of those, you know, the minor aspects I kept to like one, you know, orb. But uh, but yeah, like you could change I think the the sun, the moon, and uh the ascendant. I think I would up I would widen those for conjunctions to ten. Right personally, that would be that made sense to me. Right. And then for like oppositions for those three, I would make them eight. And you could you could tinker that much.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

So this is But again, they the orb is to the aspect, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

For each aspect, and then for squares, it was like you know, maybe five, unless it's like blah blah blah. Yeah. But I this makes this intuitively makes sense to me because because yeah, certain planets do bigger, aren't they? Yes, you know uh Jupiter or yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 17:28

Exactly, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:30

Cool.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

And um, I just had a quick look at my chart too, because I have this I have a similar situation. So I've got um I've got Mercury's at eight, Leo, and the sun is at 17, so that distance is nine. So this now makes, which is not a standard conjunction, but this now makes it that in this is our example that um the sun's is conjoined Mercury, but Mercury's not conjoined the sun. That is that is a classic example because Mercury's orb is seven and the distance is nine, so Mercury in its sphere cannot see the sun, but the sun at 15 can see Mercury. Right. So that um and I mean I only looked at this one and I looked at your one because we we wanted some examples to talk about. And of course, if this is not making sense, go back and re-listen again or read the blog post. But the point being that in this situation where the sun is conjoined Mercury, um, I I'm happy to see that because I I I relive this, right? Absolutely, you know, yeah and Mercury is not necessarily well, Mercury is not conjoined the sun and is not even with Moiety, it is not conjoined the sun. So I have this one-way aspect where the sun is conjoined Mercury. End of story.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

And they're both in Leo. So for you, I mean, you are such a Leo. So quintessentially Leo. That's yeah, yeah, it just makes sense. And I I love that this kind of comes along and says, oh, hey, that that thing that you thought was intuitively true this whole time that you've lived, you know. Yeah. Like, well, it's not really exactly it is, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

Because uh, even though you know they're both in the same time, both in the same house, they're not conjoined technically. Yeah. So if you were doing an astrology exam, they would not be conjoined. However, with moiety, I've it's the one way. So I urge everybody that you once you get your head around this and you realize the combinations, you need to go to all of your aspects and decide whether or not you have a moiety aspect between planets that are not listed in your um aspectarian because that the orb now is 15 for the sun, you see, and 12 and 12 for the moon.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

That's so interesting.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

And the idea is that this is one way of this is advanced native astrology, but you need to know about it. You absolutely need to know about it. And the idea is that the um if you've got planets that have moyed aspects, when you're dealing with your clients, you need to discuss it because they they have enough proximity to be influential. Yeah, and um, these orbs are uh we just decide them anyway. Yeah, we we decide what the orbs are anyway, so yeah, that that's one thing. Yeah, so what do you think about that?

SPEAKER_01 20:06

I I love this. This is really cool. Um, I I do have one question, and that is would you apply moiety to then all the aspects or only the uh Ptolemaic or major aspects? Like, would you apply like a seven uh degree orb to a Venus bi quintile, for example?

SPEAKER_00 20:25

Well, technically you can. That's what moiety is about.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

But who has time?

unknown 20:32

Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

You know?

SPEAKER_01 20:34

Yeah. Would you okay, so what would be the ameliorating or or you know, the the kind of like the cutoff. No, I mean the the factors that like okay, so you say, well, you know, who has time, but like if your Venus is a very strong planet in your chart, for example, if Venus is your most elevated or if it's you chart ruler. Yeah, chart ruler, um, or if it's like the the dispositor tree, Venus is your your if Venus is your girl, yes, then you're gonna apply the moiety to any aspects Venus makes, whether they're minor orbit. Correct, perhaps correct. And if if Mars is like maybe it's in detriment, maybe you've got Mars and Virgo, for example, yeah, maybe you're gonna be like, yeah, I don't I'm not gonna apply the degree orb to everything because Mars is not super strong anyway. Yeah, yeah. Right?

unknown 21:18

Yeah, cool.

SPEAKER_00 21:18

This is it. So the idea is that with Venus, because with Venus and Mercury, because their moiety is seven, it's less than the regular conjunction anyway. So they will not be planets reaching out to others, but the other planets, and you want to start with the sun at 15 and say, Yeah, is it doing a square? Is it doing an opposition? Let's have a look, let's have a closer look at this, because the sun is hugely important in any chart. Absolutely. Yeah. So I would, if you're going to start working with moiety, I'd start with the sun, get all those calculations and find out does the sun make a conjunction? And uh in my chart, it makes a conjunction. I didn't look at the oppositions, tries and squares, because yeah, not here, back in the day when I was studying, we had to do it. Yeah, but um, the point is that you've got it you. You you've got to keep these in the on your back burner to bear that in mind, right?

SPEAKER_01 22:03

I would say another interesting aspect or uh another interesting application of this is something where if you have an unaspected planet, like my moon is technically unaspected. If you if you follow, you know, the strict orders that we do. We do. I, you know, yeah. Yeah, my moon is unaspected, which is kind of a a weird one for me. I mean, I don't have any children. So, you know, yeah, there's that. I'm not a mother. But uh especially the older I get, as we've talked about this in the past, I have a lot of friends for whom you know I have motherly feelings, right, you know, or or nurturing feelings, uh rather, and uh and they're probably technically young enough to be my children, which is like horrifying, but whatever. But yeah, so this is another way that I could then go, okay, well, moon, 12-degree orb. Maybe I've got some moon aspects.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

Well, you've got the sun one, the sun conjugate moon to start with, which is babam.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

I mean, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

And you know, there are other aspects you would have to look at. You clearly got something there too, uh, hiring. I don't you know, you'd have to just dig through because for sure, yeah. And and find these aspects. But you know, at the same time, it it's it's it's another way of looking at the chart. It's not just you do this, you do this, you do this.

SPEAKER_03 23:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

Now, when you start to learn astrology and you you're learning science, plants, houses, and aspects, right, you've got to have some guidelines. It's like when you're driving the car, stay on the road, stay under the room.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

You can tend to.

SPEAKER_00 23:27

Yeah. And by the time you get your driver's license, you're speeding, you're cutting corners, you're parking in no parking base, because that's your decision, too. But when you're learning, you're not doing that. Yeah. And if you're still learning astrology, stay on the highways.

SPEAKER_03 23:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

But bear in mind that there is more to this, and do not think that you know it all. Explore these things. Write the book on it. We are waiting to hear from you.

SPEAKER_03 23:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

You know, this is what I've always said about astrology. There's so much more that can be dug into and explored and considered, and um, so yeah. So, having said all about that, about moiety, we then go on to a second moiety technique, which is now called the moiety technique. And this is this was by a French astrologer called Claude Dario.

SPEAKER_03 24:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:14

And um, he has a difference approach. So his theory is that the two planets, uh, orbs were added together and then halved to find the mean measure, and which both were then in aspected contact within each other. So in the moiety technique, moiety refers to the mean value between the two planetary orbs added together, then halved to find the distance between the two. Okay. All right. So I do have an example there of the sun, uh, sorry, the moon and Saturn. So the moon's moiety is 12 and Saturn is nine. Okay. So if you add the two together, we get 21.

SPEAKER_03 24:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

We then divide that by two in the moiety technique, and the answer is 10 degrees 30 minutes. So if the moon and Saturn are 10 degrees 30 minutes to a conjunction, then they are in conjunction through the moiety technique. Whereas in the regular moietites, it wouldn't be a conjunction for Saturn because Saturn's only nine. Got it.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:15

So this is another way, but it's specifically mentioned as the moiety technique because he's just taking a mean average, because that's another way of doing it, because it's mean, it's median, and all of these combinations of what we're saying. Yeah. And you can't just look at a chart and and well, maybe you can and calculate it. You've really got to get the get your pen out and work out these calculations. I don't know of any software which will calculate it for you. Um, Solify doesn't, and well, clearly Astro Gold doesn't, but um, you can definitely do it yourself, and it's easier to stop with the sun going at 15.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

Yeah. And and software makers out there, if you um listening, yeah, you know, please have a turn moiety on option.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

Well, yeah, that'd be great. Who's gonna step up and do that, right? Yeah, it's just not used much because you get wider, wider aspects because of the because of the sun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

So speaking of that, that might be an interesting way to um because the widest orbs that I've seen used were probably by Richard Tarnes when he wrote Cosmos and Psyche. Oh, yes. And he is a famous, uh, incredibly intellectually rigorous, mundane astrologer who has studied historical cycles back to like the dawn of time practically.

SPEAKER_02 26:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

And and studying the outer planets, especially, you know, from Jupiter on out. Um, you know, Jupiter Uranus is is is correlated with like times of of positive change and revolutionary, you know, blah blah blah. And you know, Saturn Pluto aspects are, you know, catastrophes and and you know, the fall of like revolutionary kind of blah blah blah. Anyway, uh he he uses uh orbs up to um between 12 and 15 degree orbs for these incredibly broad sort of historical and and uh sociological changes. So yeah. This is something that I think would be really interesting uh applied to mundane associations.

SPEAKER_00 27:12

Exactly, exactly. Yeah, it's um it's another way of looking at it that doesn't pigeonhold you too much, yeah. It's giving you a lot more leeway, yeah. Um yeah, you know, so when you've got these big, you know, uh Pluto Square Uranus and you Pluto Tri and Uranus and what's going on and those big uh synodic cycle beginnings and whatnot, you can go with that too. Totally love it because the influences there, like we've got this Pluto uh trying uh Uranus at the moment, it's a long, it's a long drawn-out um aspect, background noise, and we definitely need to dig into these things a lot more in one of our episodes as well. Yeah, yeah. So he's quite good with that. Yeah. So I just want to say that personally I find moiety to be panicety. And I mean, I'm a I'm a good, good strong Virgo here, but it really takes it out of you if you're gonna do these calculations. So I only ever did it for my chart, I did it for my my family, my children, and whatnot. But in a regular consultation, I will not be considering moiety.

SPEAKER_02 28:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:15

Um, but I find it an interesting thing in astrology to think about and to explore and to say, well, this is why this is happening, because you don't just have it natally, yeah, you've got it cross-chart. Yeah. So if you think, is he the one? Yes, you see where we're going with this.

SPEAKER_01 28:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

You know, is he the one? Which is always the question you get. Right. Um, you can definitely then look into situations of, well, you seeing him, but he ain't seeing you. Right.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

Wow, interesting. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

So, and of course, it applies to the points as well. You're ascendant mid-heaven, you're part of marriage or whatever part of fortune. And you might be saying, Well, I have this influence because my son is 15 degrees, he's going to influence all of this area of the chart. Yeah. His planet's in there. Is he the one? Because I'm seeing this guy, right? He doesn't know you exist because he can't see you through a loyalty.

SPEAKER_01 29:10

Oh, God, that's so interesting.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

Right? Yeah. So I love that. I love definitely seeing it. Yeah. And I do think it's it's a technique that can be used in your personal life for your personal charts and so on, but um, in general, commercially, it's a it's a huge thing. But the point being that um what I'm saying is just because I don't use it doesn't mean you shouldn't. The point is I want you to know about it.

SPEAKER_03 29:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

And what I'm saying here, um there's a difference between not knowing a technique exists and making a conscious decision not to use it.

SPEAKER_02 29:40

Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

So I'm just trying to be upfront about this. It's not something I would automatically do, but I would certainly uh discuss it and consider it and know about it and decide I haven't got time to do that.

SPEAKER_03 29:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

And the idea is that you want to, as an astrologer, you want to decide um this is what's in my toolbox, and um, some things are not in there. I have other things not in my toolbox, such as I don't use the asteroids and I don't use Antissia, which we need to do a podcast about at some point. But these are just things I am totally aware of them. I understand how they work, I just don't bring them into my my practice.

SPEAKER_03 30:12

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 30:13

So it's like saying, Well, I'm going to a hairdresser, but I'm only cutting, I don't do colour. You know, you've got to know your strengths, right? Or you or you go to a doctor and you want a dermatologist or you want a brain surgeon. Take your pick. Yeah, not everybody does everything, but they're all aware of it, right?

SPEAKER_01 30:28

Yeah, totally. They're not they're not going, well, brain surgery, that's not a thing. Yeah, it's a thing, I just don't do it.

SPEAKER_00 30:33

Yeah, so I'm doing I'm just saying that I this is what I'm I don't want people to get the impression that I'm doing this all the time, but I'm certainly not. But what I'm saying is you do you, and if you explore moiety from from here on in, or you're doing it already, and it you think this is the answer to astrology, go deep. Dig down and make sure that you you write the book about moiety.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

Because we're waiting for it, aren't we? Arwen, we really are.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

I didn't know I was waiting until today, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

There you go. That's a good one, yeah. So we've just been having another look at a couple of charts, and Arwen's got something to share with us.

SPEAKER_01 31:09

Yeah, so I know we've talked about my partner, uh, Roger, his his chart uh a lot, but he is a Scorpio, uh, famously, and he's got Libra rising, which Libra and Scorpio are very, very different signs. Like if you you know, if you think about the quintessential Libra and the quintessential Scorpio, they couldn't be more different. Um maybe if you compare like a Cancer and a Leo, they're you know, they're probably more different or Pisces and Harry's. Yeah. But but Libra and Scorpio pretty different. Um, but yet he he he presents like a very cohesive whole. Like when you meet him, he's incredibly gregarious, incredibly inquisitive. He wants to know about you. He he makes friends left and right, everyone loves him. And uh and he's got Scorpio at two degrees Scorpio, uh, sorry, the sun at two degrees, Scorpio, in his first house, conjunct Mercury at eight degrees, Scorpio. So those are obviously conjunct. He's also got Neptune at 16 degrees in the first house of Scorpio. So those are all, you know, they're conjunct each other, but the sun is not conjunct Neptune. And and what we're saying is with Moiety, we wouldn't consider Neptune, but what we would consider is the fact that his uh ascendant is at 21 degrees Libra, which is not conjunct his sun traditionally, yes, but by moiety it would be because now we're expanding the orbs of the sun, and all of a sudden his sun would actually be conjunct his ascendant.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

So, what's the difference between his ascendant and the sun? Number wise? Yeah. Degrees, 11, right?

SPEAKER_01 32:34

Yeah, yeah, there you go. I'm like, I don't know, it's tough. Come on.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

No, I don't know. So let's just start that again. So the ascendant is 21. Yeah, 21, 9 degrees of Libra, and then two of Scorpio. So that gives us 11 degrees, right? 11 degrees. So that means therefore the sun, with its moiety orb of 15, can see the ascendant.

SPEAKER_01 32:53

Yeah, and no one's gonna be using 11 degree orbs, usually, but but with with moiety, it stands that the sun is conjunct, the ascendant.

SPEAKER_00 33:02

Yeah. And how do we feel about saying his son is conjoined his ascendant, even though the ascendant is Libra and the Sun is Scorpio? I mean, I know the guy. Right. I would believe that.

SPEAKER_01 33:13

100%. That's that's right. For me, that's what makes this such a great example.

SPEAKER_00 33:17

Because Because normally you wouldn't even consider it.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

No, no, you'd think, oh, it's an out of sign, whatever. And and you know, it's kind of one of those weird things with when uh, you know, since we use placidus houses, you wouldn't even have this if you used whole sign houses, you'd be like, Wow, that's you know, not even a because the ascendant wouldn't be or whatever. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 33:39

Yeah, okay, yeah. So what we're saying is that normally, as of an hour ago, he didn't have a sun conjoined ascendant. That's what we're saying. Yeah. What we're saying now is but through moiety and the sun's wider orb of 15, yeah, because its presence is huge, yeah, he absolutely has a sun conjoint, the ascendant. And she clearly, on the day he was born, when it was 21 degrees on the ascendant at Libra, the sun, you would have seen the sun rising. His mother would have looked out the window and thought, I've got the dawn's coming. Let's get this over with. Yeah. And puffed and puffed, right?

SPEAKER_01 34:13

Exactly. And it's, I mean, it's even more appropriate for for me just looking at this because he's got that. I mean, it's a first house sun, which is already kind of more powerful by house.

SPEAKER_00 34:24

Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

Of course, it's gonna be. Yeah, I love that. That that makes a lot of sense to me. That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

So that this is this is uh one straight up example of looking looking at a chart, which is what we just did, um, looking at the sun because that's got the widest orb, then it's easier to go there first at 15, and then finding that um in in Roger's case that the sun is with moiety actually is conjured in the ascendant, and we we we know the guy, and we think, yeah, yeah. And we we can that is we can take that to the bank. Yeah, so this is interesting because the sun is so influential. And um, yeah, yeah, it's very it's very interesting.

SPEAKER_01 35:01

Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 35:03

Yeah, yeah. So you would also get diff here's another example. So because we know that Mercury and Venus's orbs through moiety is seven and not eight. If you have Venus conjoined Mercury on a regular eight-degree orb through moiety, they are not actually then conjoined. So because the moyer because their um orb is smaller, suddenly they don't have this important connection. Yeah. So I don't have any charts with that, um, but uh surely everyone can just dig through their charts and find anything. So you're looking at a conjunction between Mercury and Venus, and you're saying, what how wide is it? Yeah. And if you if it's eight degrees, and it's like, oh yeah, they're conjoined. Through moiety, they won't be because they're not close enough for the influence to be uh to be blended in it as they come together.

SPEAKER_01 35:50

I feel like moiety is one of these things you can kind of apply when you feel it makes sense and ignore it when it doesn't. Yes, yes, yeah, yeah. Cool.

SPEAKER_00 35:58

It's um it's a very interesting um another way of looking at charts.

SPEAKER_02 36:01

Yeah, yeah. Amazing.

SPEAKER_00 36:03

So if you click through to the blog post, I do have some extend yourself sections, which is me saying, go and do this. And particularly with moiety, there's gonna be two two specific things you're going to look at. You're looking at the natal chart, and um, what you're gonna do is list all the aspects in order of orb from tightest to widest. So you're gonna go through all your aspects and list them by orb. So you want the tightest aspect first, um, and then you're going to find and list all the aspect combinations where moiety can come into play because of the planets that are involved. That's the easiest way to actually do this rather than randomly looking at your chart. And then I'm gonna say uh choose one aspect with moiety, such as Arwen's uh sun-moon, and state which planet sees the other planet and which one does not. Well, I've got that one. My sun sees Mercury, but Mercury does not see the sun, right? So, what am I saying? I run off at the mouth, yeah. And then for the extend yourself further through interpretations, and these are things that um, if you were in a class with me, this will be your homework. What I'm saying is discuss the meaning of the one-sidedness of an aspect with moiety. Yeah, yeah. And um, you you need to give it some thought because what do we want to say? The sun sees Mercury, Mercury doesn't see the sun. You need to explore that and say, well, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:17

Does this ring true in the chart that you're looking at? Yeah. Something that is resonant and and meaningful to you.

SPEAKER_00 37:22

Yeah, yeah. And and what does it mean? And dig deep and write it down and do the interpretation because that's how you learn these things. You don't just yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:30

Yeah, it's it's not just like a mathematical uh anomaly. It's not a you know, oh, 12 degrees versus 15 or you know, eight degrees versus whatever. It's it's about the the meaningfulness and the resonance of it. That's the whole point of astrology.

SPEAKER_00 37:44

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, it's a it's a very interesting uh thing to know about. And if you're French, then you know how to say the word as well, which is totally bonus. I I think it's interesting. It's one of those, it's an advanced technique, but it's aspects don't just come in one size.

SPEAKER_01 38:02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:02

It's not one size fits all, it's uh size does matter with aspects. So this is one way of looking at it.

SPEAKER_01 38:07

Very cool. Yeah, I love it. Um I've loved learning about this. This is pretty much.

SPEAKER_00 38:10

Oh, good, good. Okay, so we've been looking at the advanced natal techniques of moiety, moyete, moy te ne, however you say it, and we've been talking about how size does matter depending on how big planets are, there's their influence is larger. And this is another way of looking at aspects rather than just straight up saying it's eight degrees.

SPEAKER_03 38:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:32

So and we've explored this, we've looked at um a couple of aspects within my chart, our ones, because we've got them right here and also Roger. And we're urging you to go and look at your chart right this moment, dig it out and see if you've got any aspects of moiety because it's super interesting. Yeah, and as always, with this podcast, we like to have conversations where we'd like to think that you're still thinking about it a week later thing, let me go and check that moiety again. Let me go and have a look at that chart, yeah, let me go and do something about it because it was it's an interesting technique, and I could certainly apply it, and I want to know about it, and I want to educate myself astrologically.

SPEAKER_01 39:07

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 39:08

Yeah, so that's really why we do these things. Yeah. So if you have found value in this episode, please do share it with anybody who'd be interested. Make sure that you're getting our newsletter and you can sign up at starzology.com forward stroke newsletter. Additionally, make sure you're getting Arwen's newsletter, and you can find Arwen at I'm at Ms.

SPEAKER_01 39:28

Pink.net, M S P-I-N-K.net, and I send out my weekly newsletter every Saturday.

SPEAKER_00 39:33

Yeah. And um super interesting it is too. Yes. And um, please, uh, if you've enjoyed this podcast, do give us a like, give us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. If you're listening on YouTube, then do give you know give us a like, write your comments there. We read every comment. We do appreciate your support. So, Arwen, thank you so much for joining me again to discuss moiety and be our little uh guinea pig.

SPEAKER_01 39:59

Guinea pig, there you say fresh lamb.

SPEAKER_00 40:01

Yeah, the lamb lamb, not the lamb to the slaughter, but somebody the other lamb. Yeah, exactly. A super lamb. Yeah, and um uh thank you so much to our listeners, and we'll see you next time. See you next time.